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On Monday night, I finished reading Harry Potter and The Prisoner of Azkaban. I had a couple of questions in mind when I started reading this book. One, about how Sirius Black escaped from Azkaban, was quickly and easily answered. The other was already bigger when I first asked it. It hasn't been completely resolved by reading the book, but I now have further thoughts on the issue, so here I shall record them.

The question was whether or not a narrowing of Alan Rickman's eyes during the 'Shrieking Shack scene' in the film was consciously supposed to represent Snape using legilimency to discover Sirius Black's innocence, but still persisting in trying to get him Kissed by the Dementors anyway. Or, as innerbrat put it so nicely, I wanted to know whether Snape was 'the man who knows Sirius is innocent and wants him Kissed anyway.'

The short answer is that I could not find anything in the equivalent scene in the book which indicated that Snape was using legilimency at this point. The long answer, is, well, a lot longer. In essence, I now think that for Snape not to use legilimency at this point in the story is almost as bad as using it and then ignoring the information it yields.

For more details, follow these cuts:

1. The nature and extent of Snape's legilimency

A starting point, and one which was discussed to some extent in my previous post, would be to ask how powerful Snape's legilimency is. Is he actually capable of reading information such as Black's innocence just by looking into his eyes, and without using the 'legilimens' incantation? I stated previously that I thought he could, because he seems to read at least some information regularly from book 1 onwards in order to test whether people are lying to him or not, without needing an incantation. Having read book 3, I'm now more convinced of this than ever.

I think the most helpful chapter in book 3 for casting light on this is chapter 14, 'Snape's Grudge'. In this chapter, Harry visits Hogsmeade secretly, using his invisibility cloak and a secret tunnel which Fred and George have pointed out to him on the Marauder's Map. Snape confronts Harry in the corridor before he enters the tunnel. He also intercepts Harry on his return from Hogsmeade and summons him to his office, where he both tries to press a confession out of him about throwing mud at Malfoy and discovers the Marauder's Map.

During these exchanges, Snape appears to me to use legilimency a great deal (without any need for incantations), and he seems to be able to deduce the following facts without being told them directly:

p. 204 - There is some kind of entrance-way which Harry doesn't want him to know about, close to where he finds Harry and Neville standing in the third floor corridor. At first, he isn't sure where it is ("Snape's black eyes flicked to the doorways on either side of them, and then to the one-eyed witch"), but by the time he has finished sneering at Harry, he has worked out that there is something interesting about the statue of the one-eyed witch ("As they turned the corner, Harry looked back. Snape was running one of his hands over the one-eyed witch's head, examining it closely").

p. 208 – Harry is lying when he says he knows nothing about Malfoy and the mud ("Snape's eyes were boring into Harry's. It was exactly like trying to stare down a hippogriff. Harry tried not to blink... 'Malfoy is not having hallucinations... if your head was in Hogsmeade, so was the rest of you.'").

p. 210 – Harry is bluffing with regards to how much he knows about the circumstances in which James Potter saved Snape's life ("Harry bit his lip. He didn't know what had happened and didn't want to admit it – but Snape seemed to have guessed the truth.")

p. 210 – There is something in Harry's pocket which he would be interested to know about ("'Turn out your pockets, Potter!' he spat suddenly."). OK, so that's just common sense in a teacher faced with a boy who's clearly Up To No Good, but in the context of Snape's other deductions, this becomes plausible as another instance of legilimency.

p. 210-211 – The apparently blank piece of parchment in Harry's pocket is of great importance to him ("Snape had picked up the map. Harry tried with all his might to keep his face impassive, 'Spare bit of parchment,' he shrugged. Snape turned it over, his eyes on Harry. 'Surely you don't need such a very old piece of parchment?' he said. 'Why don't I just – throw this away?'"). Here, Snape tests out the theory he has gleaned through legilimency via direct confrontation: making as if to burn the parchment.

p. 211 – The parchment has helped Harry to get to Hogsmeade. ("'So!' Said Snape, his long nostrils quivering. 'Is this another treasured gift from Mr. Weasley? Or is it – something else? A letter, perhaps, written in invisible ink? Or – instructions to get into Hogsmeade without passing the Dementors?' Harry blinked. Snape's eyes gleamed."). Here, Snape seems to be getting closer and closer to the truth as he speaks, presumably by probing into Harry's mind as he does so.

Some surreptitious gleaning of information does seem to be going on here. It's possible to argue that Snape is simply applying lucky guesses, based on an extreme suspicion of anything Harry Potter says or does. But let's not forget that JKR couldn't be too explicit about Snape's legilimency here, because she didn't want to reveal it fully until book 5.

So assuming that he is using legilimency, the essence of his ability seems to me to be this. He can detect flashes of strong emotion by looking into another person's eyes: for example, a hope that he won't find out about something important, or the nervous strain which comes with lying. Once he know there's something to look for, he can then pick up the details: for example, Harry's more specific hopes that he won't find out about the one-eyed witch, or that he won't work out that the parchment was linked with his being able to get to Hogsmeade.

2. Lupin the legilimens

And now let me bring another factor into the equation: Remus J. Lupin. For it is clear to me that he, too, is a legilimens.

This doesn't seem to have been widely recognised in Harry Potter fandom: Lupin isn't mentioned in the article about legilimency on the Harry Potter Lexicon, and in fact the only reference I could find online to his legilimency at all was in this article at Red Hen Publications (scroll down about 6/7ths through the article or do 'Edit', 'Find', 'Lupin' to find the relevant bit).

So I think I had first better present my evidence for thinking he is a legilimens, before I move on to using him to throw light on the Snape question. Below are a series of quotations I picked out which seem to me to indicate that he is able to read minds:

Ch. 8, p. 116:
"He thought for a moment of telling Lupin about the dog he'd seen in Magnolia Crescent, but decided not to. He didn't want Lupin to think he was a coward, especially since Lupin already seemed to think he couldn't cope with a Boggart.
Something of Harry's thoughts seemed to have shown on his face, because Lupin said, 'Anything worrying you, Harry?'"

Ch. 10, pp. 139-40:
"'Did you hear about the Dementors, too?' said Harry with difficulty.
Lupin looked at him quickly.
'Yes, I did'…
…He hesitated, and then the question he had to ask burst from him before he could stop himself. 'Why? Why do they affect me like that? Am I just – ?'
'It has nothing to do with weakness,' said Professor Lupin sharply, as though he had read Harry's mind."

Ch. 12, p. 182:
"He pulled two bottles out of his briefcase.
'Butterbeer!' said Harry, without thinking. 'Yeah, I like that stuff!'
Lupin raised an eyebrow. [At this point, Harry is not supposed to have been to Hogsmeade]
'Oh – Ron and Hermione brought me some back from Hogsmeade,' Harry lied quickly.
'I see,' said Lupin, though he still looked slightly suspicious."

Again, it's possible to argue from these that he is just sensitive and able to read body language. But I think that given J.K. Rowling is writing these passages in the context of a world in which legilimency exists, we have to assume that when she gives indications like this, she is pointing us at real mind-reading, not a metaphorical equivalent.

Besides, for me, the clincher is this:

Ch. 17, p. 252:
"'But then…' Lupin muttered, staring at Black so intently it seemed he was trying to read his mind, '…why hasn't he shown himself before now? Unless – ' Lupin's eyes suddenly widened, as though he was seeing something beyond Black, something none of the rest could see, ' – unless he was the one… unless you switched… without telling me?'
Very slowly, his sunken gaze never leaving Lupin's face, Black nodded."

At this point, Lupin knows that Peter Pettigrew is alive. But he does not know that Black persuaded the Potters to substitute Pettigrew for himself as their Secret-Keeper: in fact, he has only just set eyes on Black for the first time in twelve years a few seconds earlier. He is clearly reading the information from Black's mind at this point. This, in fact, is what makes Lupin realise that Black has been innocent all this time. He has begun to wonder, because he has found out that Pettigrew is still alive. And he confirms it for himself by legilimency.

And that brings us back to Snape. OK, it's possible that Lupin is a much more powerful legilimens than Snape. After all, we're told in book 5 that Snape's real forte is occlumency. But in the absence of any explicit comment on their relative strengths at legilimency from JKR I'm going to work on the assumption that if Lupin could read that information from Black's mind, so could Snape…. if, that is, he chose to do so.

3. Snape's agenda: self-delusion, or something worse?

Now we get back to just exactly what Snape was up to in that Shrieking Shack scene. From the evidence I've discussed above, I'm now pretty damn convinced that he could have discovered Black's innocence through legilimency if he had chosen to do so. However, I also think that he doesn't choose to do so, and that this in itself is the result of a pretty terrifying state of mind.

What Snape in fact seems to me to be doing, both in the Shrieking Shack scene and thereafter for the rest of the book, is completely and utterly closing himself off to any channels of information which might, as he sees it, carry a risk of undermining his plans for revenge on Sirius Black by revealing that Black is actually innocent: whether spoken words or legilimency. To all intents and purposes, in fact, he goes through the entire scene with his fingers in his ears and his eyes screwed tight shut, shouting "La-la-la-la! I can't hear you!" Snape needs Black to be guilty in order for his revenge to work out, and he desperately doesn't want to see or hear anything which might suggest otherwise.

Thus we find that he goes through the Shrieking Shack scene doing almost nothing but rebuffing suggestions that he might be wrong, and Black just might be innocent after all. At the moment when he reveals his presence by stepping out of the Invisibility Cloak, he has not yet learnt anything much he didn't already know (except, perhaps, that Peter was an animagus and could turn into a rat, although he may well have known that already from his school days). In fact, he does not even know that Black and Lupin think Pettigrew is alive in the form of Ron's rat, since that was revealed before he stepped, invisibly, through the doorway, and hasn't been mentioned again since.

Fair enough, then, that the information he has to work on at this point would suggest to him that Sirius was indeed guilty, and he should act as such. But what happens next is that every other character present (with the exception of Ron, who isn't really following what's going on, and Peter Pettigrew who's a) a rat and b) would have no motivation for doing so) in turn suggests to Snape that he might just have the wrong end of the stick. In quick succession, we get the following:

p. 263- "'Severus, you're making a mistake,' said Lupin urgently. 'You haven't heard everything – I can explain – Sirius is not here to kill Harry – '"

p. 264 - "Hermione, however, took an uncertain step towards Snape and said, in a very breathless voice, 'Professor Snape – it – it wouldn't hurt to hear what they've got to say, w-would it?'"

p. 264 again - "'The joke's on you again, Severus,' snarled Black…. [Then, in response to a more immediate threat from Snape to get him Kissed by the Dementors:] 'You – you've got to hear me out,' he croaked. 'The rat – look at the rat – '"

And finally:

p. 265 - "'Professor Lupin could have killed me about a hundred times this year,' Harry said. 'I've been alone with him loads of times, having defence lessons against the Dementors. If he was helping Black, why didn't he just finish me off then?'
'Don't ask me to fathom the way a werewolf's mind works,' hissed Snape. 'Get out of the way, Potter.'
'YOU'RE PATHETIC!' Harry yelled. 'JUST BECAUSE THEY MADE A FOOL OF YOU AT SCHOOL YOU WON'T EVEN LISTEN – '"

Now Snape could do two things in reaction to these multiple prompts that he's wrong. He could say, 'Eh? You mean Sirius shouldn't be Kissed after all?'. Or, he could use his legilimency to find out what's behind the things the other characters are saying: something which has in fact already been established as very normal behaviour for Snape, especially when he thinks someone is choosing to hide something from him.

But he doesn't do either. He certainly doesn't ask for an explanation, and there's no sign of any authorial suggestion that he uses legilimency either: no references to probing looks from him or sudden indications that he knows more than he has been told out loud, which seem to be the normal indicators of it. Instead, he binds and gags Lupin, yells at Hermione to shut up, threatens Black, yells at and tries to humiliate Harry, and is finally stopped only by being knocked unconscious by the three kids. In other words, the entirety of Snape's scene here consists of him trying to nobble Black, other people saying, 'Er, this might not actually be a very good idea…' and him violently rebuffing their suggestions. He, and they, do nothing else until Snape is out of the picture again.

So while I think we can safely say that in this scene, Snape is not guilty of (again, to quote innerbrat) being the man who knows Sirius is innocent, and still wants him Kissed anyway, he does seem to be guilty of being the man who makes bloody sure he doesn't risk finding out that Sirius is innocent, because he doesn't want a tedious little detail like that to hold up his plans. This in itself may be slightly redeeming, because it suggests Snape has some sort of moral code: if he knew a man was guilty, he could not then persist in having him, effectively, annihilated.

OK, but I have my worries about the 'purity' of any such moral code anyway (see below), and in any case, there is also the matter of his eagerness to get Sirius Kissed a.s.a.-fucking-p. Before he gets knocked unconscious in the Shack, he responds to Sirius' suggestion that both he and Ron's rat should be taken up to the castle (implicitly, to face justice), thus:

"'Up to the castle?' said Snape silkily. 'I don't think we need to go that far. All I have to do is call the Dementors once we get out of the Willow. They'll be very pleased to see you, Black… pleased enough to give you a little kiss, I daresay…'"

This isn't just self-delusion now: this looks a lot like an active desire to make sure Sirius gets Kissed before anyone else has a chance to find out he's innocent. If Snape is so eager to get things over with quickly, it suggests to me that he isn't just blocking out any suggestions of Sirius' innocence on the mad off-chance that it might be possible, but that he actually thinks it's quite likely, and wants to make sure this doesn't get in his way.

Later on, once he's gained consciousness again, he then persists with the same approach. In the hospital wing, he undermines Harry and Hermione's protestations to Fudge of Sirius' innocence by claiming that they have been Confunded by Black; incidentally once again brushing aside the chance to take their stories seriously himself. Then, when he and Fudge have been kicked out of the hospital wing by Dumbledore, the time-travelling Harry and Hermione hear him pressing Fudge to make sure that matters proceed as quickly as possible:

"It sounded like Fudge and Snape. They were walking quickly along the corridor at the foot of the staircase.
'… only hope Dumbledore's not going to make any difficulties,' Snape was saying, 'The Kiss will be performed immediately?'"

Again, not just the words of a man who has allowed himself no doubts as to Black's guilt, surely, but the words of a man who wants to make sure Black is finished off before anyone else (of importance) has any. I call that a step worse than mere self-delusion.

4. Last but not least, the Dumbledore factor

Finally, let's go back to that 'moral code' I suggested Snape might be operating under earlier on. In other words, the possibility that he might be deliberately pushing away any suggestions that Sirius is innocent because he knows he won't be able to persist in wreaking his revenge on him if he finds this out for certain. That's already rather damaged, I think, by Snape's eagerness to make sure others, also, don’t have a chance to discover any truth which might be disadvantageous to him. But let's just work for the moment on the basis that Snape himself would have to stop trying to get Sirius Kissed if he found out for sure that he was innocent. Why, exactly?

I suspect that the reason might be less edifying than I might like. I have a sneaking suspicion that if Snape has any kind of moral code in these matters, then it is called Albus Dumbledore.

We know, after all, that Albus too is a legilimens (book 5 certainly states explicitly that he could teach Harry occlumency if he wanted to, while there are numerous scenes in earlier books where he seems to be using legilimency, just as there are for Lupin and Snape). Snape must therefore know during the Shrieking Shack scene that, however things pan out there, at some point soon afterwards he will come face to face with Dumbledore: and Dumbledore will know perfectly well if, by that time, he has knowingly had an innocent man destroyed. [EDIT: actually, I've just realised that this argument is weakened rather by the fact that Snape is a supperb occlumens, which means he could hide knowledge of his own wrong-doing even from Dumbledore... Ah well, I will let the original text stand as I wrote it...]

In fact, I think JKR even gives us a scene in which exactly this is demonstrated. In chapter 21, back in the hospital wing, we get this:

p. 286 - "'I suppose he's told you the same fairy tale he's planted in Potter's mind?' spat Snape. 'Something about a rat, and Pettigrew being alive – '
'That, indeed, is Black's story,' said Dumbledore, surveying Snape closely through his half-moon spectacles."

By this point, in fact, Dumbledore does know that Sirius is innocent, because he has had the chance to talk with him in the tower where he is being held prisoner, and, of course, to look into his eyes to check the truth of his story as he did so. He only can't act on this because he has no hard evidence to support it: only his legilimency (which comes down to his word) and the words of Black himself and the three children.

I would therefore read the snippet above as Dumbledore checking Snape out to see whether he knows about it as well: and indeed, if Snape did know for certain about Black's innocence, Dumbledore would be catching him in a pretty poor light at this point.

So is that the extent of Severus Snape's moral code? That he is willing, nay eager, to harm his enemies, so long as no knowledge of certain wrong-doing appears in his mind which might be detected by Dumbledore?

And what light does that cast on his position at the school and his loyalties in general? Well, I don't think this automatically means he's really been on Voldemort's side all along. I see it rather as confirmation of an opinion I've seen expressed by numerous HP fans in several places: that Snape is really on Snape's side. In the end, I hope we all find out that there is some very good, and very morally admirable, reason why Snape originally left the Death Eaters and aligned himself with the Order of the Phoenix. But from what I've read to date, it also appears that he is very willing to ensure that his own personal goals and vendettas are fulfilled along the way, insofar as he can manage to work it.

My conclusion to all this? Well, canon Snape is not very nice, is he? I'm increasingly finding that I want to distinguish pretty sharply between Rickman-Snape and book-Snape. And while the first is troubled but sexy, the second is really very difficult to like.

Now, I am going to bed to start Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

Comments

( 24 comments — Leave a comment )
thebiomechanoid
Jan. 26th, 2005 10:32 pm (UTC)
Having never read an entire harry Potter book - I must say, you are VERY well informed!

Xx
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 09:15 am (UTC)
You should give 'em a shot: I won't say it's high literature, but there's plenty of food for thought there.
dakegra
Jan. 26th, 2005 10:39 pm (UTC)
that was absolutely fascinating, thankyou!

:-)
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 09:16 am (UTC)
I aim to please!
damien_mocata
Jan. 27th, 2005 02:43 am (UTC)
The world loves a bastard :D
swisstone
Jan. 27th, 2005 10:37 am (UTC)
What's Snape's motivation?
There are a lot of people in this world who get fixated on the idea of someone's guilt, and will then refuse to acknowledge any contrary evidence. Such people also tend not to be keen on any delays to the legal process, viewing them as a waste of time. This is how most miscarriages of justice happen - people get fitted up because the police and the courts actually think they were guilty.

What I'm trying to say is that Snape's actions as you describe them (I haven't read the book) aren't necessarily motivated by malice, but by narrow-mindedness. As far as he's concerned, Black's guilt has already been established, so what's the point in wasting time with spurious attempts to deny that?
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 10:57 am (UTC)
Re: What's Snape's motivation?
Well, as I've argued above, I think it goes a step further than simple narrow-mindedness. If you read the book, you'll find that his reactions to any suggestions that he might be wrong about Black are violent and extreme: in fact, he comes across as virtually insane in the latter chapters in the book because of the extreme nature of his refusals to allow anyone to suggest that Black might not be guilty.

Also, if you haven't read the book, you might not know about the history between Snape and Black which gives Snape a great deal of malicious motivation for maintaining his narrow-minded stance. Black (also with Remus Lupin, James Potter and Peter Pettigrew) taunted Snape relentlessly when they were all at school together, including tricking him into a situation in his 6th year when he would have come face to face with Lupin in full werewolf form, and hence almost certainly died - had James Potter not got cold feet and pulled him out at the last minute.

Snape is not the sort of man to let a grudge drop easily: in fact, it's clear that he has been waiting years to get his vengeance on Black for all this (he says explicitly that he'd hoped since he heard Black has escaped from Azkaban that he'd be the one who would catch him, hence wreaking his revenge).

So he seems to me to be deliberately creating in himself a state of extreme denial of any possibility of innocence, in order that he can pursue his distinctly malicious intent of paying Black back for his experiences at school by getting him Kissed by the Dementors.
meerium
Jan. 27th, 2005 12:38 pm (UTC)
(yeah, i know the icon's one of yours, i just couldn't use anything else!)

i'm thoroughly enjoying reading your thoughts as you go through the harry potter books! i enjoy reading them for pretty much the same reasons as you, and find these aspects of the books fascinating. i also recommend a lot of the articles on the red hen site - quite a lot of interesting food for thought there.
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 12:56 pm (UTC)
Thanks, glad you're enjoying it! Even though I haven't actually read books 4 and 5 yet, reading book 3 in the light of what I know from web-sites and friends is revealed in the later books is really cool.

As for Red Hen, definitely - I am slowly working my way through it, reading an article here and there in a lunch break.

And I am always glad to see Snape icons, wherever they've come from!
meerium
Jan. 27th, 2005 01:18 pm (UTC)
oh yes, and i also share the alan rickman issue! film snape, you so *would*. book snape, euuuwww no. i think i read on joanne rowling's site that she's finding it quite funny that people are claiming to fancy both snape and lucius malfoy, when it's clearly 'them as portrayed by fochsy actors' that people are lusting after. i guess also, it's why a lot of people actually can write snape/hermione fanfic.
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 01:33 pm (UTC)
Entirely! Book-Snape = greasy, long-nosed, generally nasty. Film-Snape = damn sexy! (Alan Rickman's wig doesn't look greasy to me at all).

There is a picture somewhere out there of JKR holding a sketch she did of how she imagines book-Snape, in which he really looks not attractive at all. But I can't seem to track it down for you just now... :(
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 06:55 pm (UTC)
Ha! I tracked down that sketch of Snape by Rowling!

That might just need to be iconised, methinks...
meerium
Jan. 28th, 2005 12:50 pm (UTC)
that would be ace! also, i mentioned further down on the thread to innerbrat about the m15m version of harry potter and the prisoner of azkaban? you should read it for a giggle, it's a 'movie in 15 minutes' version of the film, and it is very, very funny indeed.
strange_complex
Jan. 28th, 2005 12:54 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I noticed your comment and I did! 'Twas cool.
strange_complex
Jan. 28th, 2005 09:58 pm (UTC)
Have just turned JKR's sketch into a groovy icon!

I've also edited the original post so that this is now the icon for it, since it's now by far the most appropriate icon I have for this.
meerium
Feb. 1st, 2005 04:46 pm (UTC)
ace!
innerbrat
Jan. 27th, 2005 03:23 pm (UTC)
1) I agree with you totally on the analysis of Snape's motivations: that's pretty much my interpretation of his actions, and he is a nasty piece of work.

2) As a Lupin fan, I have to say that I actually hope he isn't a Legilimens, for two main reasons:
a) because Snape's poor teaching is partly to blame for Sirius' death, and I really don't want poor Remus having another reason to feel guilty about that (as someone who could have taught Harry instead).
b) because I like Remus as a really really quick thinking and intelligent man who doesn't need Legilimancy to figure out what's going on.
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 04:00 pm (UTC)
On 1) - thanks. You struck me when I brought this up before as really knowing your stuff in this arena, so I take this as a vote of confidence in my 'reading' of the story.

Snape's poor teaching is partly to blame for Sirius' death

Urgh, is it? That's heavy stuff, too, and counts (further) for me against seeing Snape as a remotely likeable character. I've read snippets of the scenes in which he is teaching Harry occlumency, and they seem full of his desire to humiliate and exercise power over Harry: i.e. more petty narrow-mindedness. He seems to me to fail to see the wider picture and realise that the safety of Harry, and others, might actually depend on him learning this skill effectively. If this partly leads to Sirius' death, that just further emphasises how short-sighted Snape was being in the lessons.

On 2) in general, I take the point about ordinary human sensitivity being more appealing than legilimency. But the scenes I quoted above just seem too heavily loaded towards being intended to convey actual legilimency for me to accept them as just sensitivity: especially the final one in the Shrieking Shack. Suddenly working out that Black had changed the arrangements regarding the Secret Keeper like that would take a hell of a lot of intellect and sensitivity if you weren't also a legilimens.
innerbrat
Jan. 27th, 2005 04:08 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry, I keep forgetting you haven't read the fifth book.
Yes, it is a direct result of Harry not learning Occlumency that Sirius is murdered. It's partly Harry's fault as well, of course, and Harry does not behave well (although the Wizarding World in general has differing moralty to me with regards to the sanctity of Mind, I equate Harry's actions in a particular chapter to be equivalent to rape)

But I like Remus as someone with a hell of a lot of intellect and sensitivity. That's why I like him :)

You may be right, of course, in which case I may have to rewrite Lovesong for a Werewolf
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 04:49 pm (UTC)
the Wizarding World in general has differing moralty to me with regards to the sanctity of Mind, I equate Harry's actions in a particular chapter to be equivalent to rape

Yes, that's a whole area for consideration in itself which arises from legilimency. It already looks to me as though Dumbledore and Snape (and, I'm sorry, Lupin too!) apply different rules from one another about when it is appropriate to use legilimency. Generally, it seems to me that Dumbledore and Lupin use it where they consider that it will be of general benefit, while Snape uses it to benefit himself.

I shall remember what you say about Harry when I get to book 5, and see what I think.
innerbrat
Jan. 27th, 2005 05:57 pm (UTC)
Look out for the actions of one of the new characters as well (A wizard by the name of Kingsley Shacklebolt) and in particular Dumbledore's reaction to them.
strange_complex
Jan. 27th, 2005 06:02 pm (UTC)
Ooh! *excited*

Damn, why am I only on chapter 2 of Goblet of Fire?
meerium
Jan. 27th, 2005 05:07 pm (UTC)
innerbrat, i love this icon! i take it you've seen the m15m community, and the version of poa in 15 minutes? it's one of the funniest things i had the misfortune of reading in work!
innerbrat
Jan. 27th, 2005 05:58 pm (UTC)
Thank you very much, and yes, I have of course. That's where the quote comes from.
( 24 comments — Leave a comment )

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